In this episode of The Narwhal Pod, Michael sat down with Kriste Goad, Founder and Chief Fire Starter at Fuoco in Nashville, TN. Fuoco is a healthcare marketing agency and Kriste and her team are knowledgable about the current state of healthcare marketing, what's important for companies to focus their resources on, and some incoming trends in the industry. The fruitful conversation Michael had with Kriste is not one to miss for those in the healthcare space!
Yeah, so glad you're here. So this is great. We're going to jump right in. This is an episode we're going to talk about healthcare marketing. Yeah, super excited. So for everybody listening, so Kriste has Fuoco and website is
Michael Utley (00:27): And so Kriste, tell us about yourself. And this takes us right into our first question today. You have an
amazing brand and company. Can you tell us the why behind Fuoco? And Fuoco's Italian for fire?
Kriste Goad (00:40):
Italian for fire. Yes. I am Italian on my mom's side, I have a very strong affinity for all things Italian. And so when I was looking for a name for my company several years ago, it just, it evolved. It wasn't something that I had in mind. And then I'm like, oh, that's perfect, and I can be chief fire starter, which seems kind of fun. So that's it.
Michael Utley (01:09):
That's awesome. And so you have a digital marketing agency. You all do a lot of B2B, and I think your services lean in the direction of really heavy duty strategy and the hard questions, not the easy questions, but the hard questions. Is that right? What took you in that direction? Why did Fuoco become, why did it emerge?
Kriste Goad (01:32):
Fuoco emerged, not because it was something that I ever really set out to do, have my own agency. My career went from journalism to politics, to in-house for a healthcare company called Healthways a million years ago, doesn't even exist anymore. But I got really deep into healthcare B2B during that time. And then I went to work for a couple different agencies, and then my last agency that I worked for was acquired. And so when I left there, I had a non-compete for a little bit. And so I thought, well, maybe I should just sit out on my own and see how that goes. And so that's what I did. And I just was an
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with other freelance consultants to starting an actual agency. And that's where it has gone. (02:34):
And healthcare is really what I've been involved in for so long, over 20 years. And it just made sense for me to continue down that path and specifically healthcare B2B. So Fuoco really grew out of that. And we do a combination of, we are an integrated marketing agency, so we do digital marketing, we do brand and messaging strategy, and we do a lot of PR, media relations. We love it when a client asks us to help them with all of those things because when you are able to take an integrated approach and really leverage all channels and align all channels, that's when we see the most success.
Michael Utley (03:21):
Yeah. It seems in the healthcare space, one of our experiences, I'm curious to know if you think this is true, the more sophisticated the industry, something like healthcare, extremely complex legislation, legislation issues, even internet of things, manufacturing new products that are coming to market, massive complexity around funding and hospital networks, that sort of thing. But how did branding become one of the core pieces? Is that more of a, would you say that's kind of a home base for what you're doing, or is it more marketing strategy? What do you think is the single point of focus in how you relate to your customers?
Kriste Goad (04:04):
Yeah, I think from a branding perspective, while we have helped a lot of companies and clients go from creating a brand from scratch, so everything from naming to visual identity, building a website, and then all the marketing go to market plan and execution, we do all those things. And we partner with, we don't necessarily have in-house for every single thing, just like really, I've never run into any agency that has in-house talent for every single thing. But when you do this and you live and breathe this business who's good at what, and you go and you get those partners. So that's what we do. But from a branding perspective, what I would say is that inevitably nine times out of 10, what happens if someone comes to us looking for marketing or media relations or PR help, we inevitably find that we have to kind of take a step back and we have to work on messaging and positioning
Almost every time because we're like, okay, what's your messaging and positioning? Oh, well, actually we really need to work on that. We have really evolved our brand or evolved who as a company, we've acquired different other companies or capabilities or they've built them from scratch. And so a lot of times what we find is a client, what you can see on the website or externally, is not at all who they are today because they can always be a lag time. I mean, I look at sometimes even our own Fuoco website and I'm like, oh, gosh, really need to update some things. But it's like kind, you're so busy in the business and growing and developing new capabilities or merging or acquiring or whatever you're doing that a lot of times the business outpaces your public persona, your public brand, your public facing assets. So I'm kind of going on and on about that. But that is really, when we think about brand, it almost always comes down to that.
Michael Utley (06:27):
Yeah, a lot of times I feel like the pace of change in recent years in particular, we're sitting here in end of Q 3, 2023 coming off of a few years of COVID, massive shifts in the economy. But some of what we're seeing is just the deck is just sort of constantly being reshuffled now. And so I think a lot of our clients, a
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lot of your clients, probably, everybody in Nashville who works in healthcare, there's a lot of resetting and figuring out, okay, where do we go from here? So that takes me to my next question. Let's talk a little bit more about branding in B2B healthcare marketing, what's going on with branding? Because I feel like for a while there, it was easy to spit out a brand that felt really coherent, unique, and clever and cute and quirky, but didn't have any teeth. And then other brands are sort of drifting and they're changing and they're sort of more defined by what's happening around them and not sort of a strong, confident, clear self-directed message. But yeah, what are you seeing? It's not our work though. We're more channel management and we're a little bit of a step removed and downstream a little bit, I think from a lot of the work that you do. And so what's going on with branding right now? How important is it and what's changing with B2B healthcare branding right now?
Kriste Goad (07:42):
Yeah. Well, I do think our niche is really helping healthcare B2B brands tell their stories and so much about branding is what's the story you're telling? And are you talking about, we spend a lot of time talking about are you just telling the market all about your products and the features of your products? Are you actually telling them of the value that you're bringing? Are you helping educate the market and your buyers about how they should be thinking about marketing, branding, PR? How do you buy these? How do you decide who to work with to help do that? How do you decide which channels to use? How do you decide which tactics to use? It's those kinds of things. But I mean, honestly, I think that branding is more important than ever in B2B healthcare marketing because there's just so much disruption and so many, like you said, so many new brands hitting the market seemingly every single day. And the interesting part there is a lot of times when you look at which brands, it could be a brand new company that's got a lot of funding and they spend a lot of money on marketing, so they make a big splash.
They've not gotten $1 of revenue and may never, but they get all kinds of press or you see 'em everywhere and their brand is just so impressive. So in that instance, making a brand investment and doing it right out of the gate, if you can afford it, it can make a big difference. And you might get acquired within a year or two years maybe with no revenue. So there's a lot of strength in brand in that way in that regard. Most brands don't have that kind of money at launch, but there are so many, especially digital health, that market has cooled a lot in the past year in terms of funding. But there's still a lot of funding available and there's still a lot of new brands coming to market, new solutions coming to market. But the other thing about branding is all of this, and you kind of touched on it, and we kind of mentioned it earlier about extreme consolidation going on in healthcare.
There's just a ton of mergers and acquisitions, and even the most established brands that you can think of in healthcare are in a position of needing to redefine their brand to the market because of what I talked about earlier, which is they have changed so much. They've acquired new companies, acquired new capabilities, they've pivoted on their vision and a lot of pivots out of COVID. So their brand needs to catch up and they really need to rethink and retell their story. And that's a huge ask, especially we run into a lot of time with clients. It's as much as an inside job as an outside job because of all that. You think about integrating a whole new company, or maybe your brand has just gone out and bought four new companies. There's a lot involved in that and a lot involved in getting everybody on the same page, understanding what do you even offer. So we talk a lot about when you rebrand or just even reposition, you really have to educate your internal audiences, your internal brand ambassadors as much as your external. And that process in and of itself really helps get everybody on the same page.
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Yeah, there's some really good soundbites in there. I'm hearing a couple of big things. Not everyone's moved out of sales speak and into branding, so there's still a lot of sales content making its way, and I would say that resonates for us as well. Even just digital marketing channels, just trying to beat us me out of the headlines and get companies to think in terms of what's really the Donald Miller kind of StoryBrand approach, who's the hero of the story? Okay, well let's talk about that a little bit. Let's not talk about us. Let's talk about them a little bit. But then also that's
Kriste Goad (12:26): A lot harder. It's a lot harder.
Michael Utley (12:28):
Yeah. Yeah. It is harder. It's harder to get into that mindset and show up there and bring something of value to that conversation when you actually have to work harder to get yourself on that side of the table, not just, Hey, we developed all this great software. Let me tell you about these features that you're never going to use. Because yeah, and the other big thing is so much activity right now, so many mergers and acquisitions. I feel that the entire industry is going through this upheaval, almost like remote work with commercial real estate. If a few people are doing it, they're more cost competitive. And so suddenly everybody has to go remote work if it's possible because they're under that cost pressure. Well, if you're a medical practice working independently and everybody else is run by some sort of streamlined healthcare rollup, suddenly you're at a disadvantage. If you've just got one map pen and you're nearest competitor has 50 and they're run by this big organization, that's very streamlined. So yeah, that's a lot of rethinking and a lot of shifting that's happening in the marketplace right now.
Kriste Goad (13:34): A hundred percent. Yes.
Michael Utley (13:35):
Yeah, that's great. Well, okay, let's go to our next question. This may be kind of dovetails, I'm just going to read this question, is rich media like video and podcasting, an essential ingredient or a nice to have for companies planning their marketing budgets for 2024? So as we kind of look to the future, we're in kind of a chaotic environment. Everybody's getting reoriented to a new economy, a different world, and then we're relating to each other a lot more with media, which I'm kind of tipping my hand a little bit there. But how's rich media factoring into branding right now for healthcare and for healthcare B2B?
Kriste Goad (14:14):
Yeah, I think rich media is essential. It's an essential element in 2024 marketing budgets, especially video love podcasts. This is a podcast. I have my own podcasts. We try to get our clients as guests on podcasts. Love it. Now, I will say about podcasting. I do caution my clients sometimes not to pursue a podcast of their own unless they're serious about it, because it's a lot of work and there's a pretty heavy lift on producing your own podcast, whereas video a hundred percent, you just bring in a good video crew and have a good plan and you can create a lot of video content that then your marketing team can go make hay with. And it's a different level of commitment. But what I would say is if you think about how you as an individual consume much of your information and your media, whether you're personal or your professional life, video is a core component.
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In some cases, it might be the only thing that some people pay much attention to. And I think B2B from my perspective, is no different in that regard because B2B decision makers, they're human first. So most of the time with video and audio podcast, you can really communicate a lot of information and a lot of emotion a lot faster in a video. I think video content is imminently more shareable than say a white paper. Now, I love a great white paper, I love thought leadership, but I always advise my clients, Hey, if we're going to take the time and spend the money to do a white paper, let's consider all the different ways that we can then market that. Right? So how do you turn this big meaty thought leadership content like a white paper, like a survey, like a research report into chunks of content, short form and long form video.
On the PR front, I'd say we also see a lot of really good engagement on a multimedia press release. That's a great place for a video as well. We just did a video shoot with a client yesterday. They're rolling out a brand new brand, speaking of brand. And so it's a new website, everything, and we're doing a press release. And then we did some media training, which led to, Hey, what about a video with our CEO being able to explain to their current customers, oh, who's this new client? Who's this new brand? What does it all mean? As well as to leverage that as part of a multimedia press release about the new brand. So that's just a real world and in the moment example of video. And I just think the key is really omnichannel, multimedia and to plan for how you're going to create that kind of content on a quarterly basis and how you're going to incorporate it into everything from thought leadership to big press announcements to branding, social media, product demos. There's just so many great applications.
Michael Utley (17:40):
Video is not going away. It's just going to be bigger and bigger, and it's coming on strong. And I think you said something really big there, planning ahead, and it's part of that sort of in it to win it or committed to the course of action. But one of the things we talk a lot about is not just producing the content, but having a robust publishing strategy. It sounds like you're thinking about that too. Is that right?
Kriste Goad (18:03):
Absolutely, yes, yes. One thing that I think a lot of people don't think about, and it's sometimes hard to convince clients to invest in this, but with social media, if you're going to invest in social media, video should be a big part of that. So if you're planning to gather video content on a quarterly basis and you're setting aside time to do that, what's going to happen? Then your partner or your internal team, whoever's executing or a lot of times combination thereof, can plan out what that content should be throughout the quarter. You're going to have different ideas, new things are going to come up, but if you can plan that, set aside time, gather new content, video content in that way, and then you can leverage it across all your channels. But social media, a lot of times I think it's an afterthought in terms of video or people just think of it, they might think of their personal social media account and video. So yeah, planning is really key.
Michael Utley (19:06):
Yeah, that's great. I think that's a really good kind of takeaway from today is better planning is going to result in not just better content, but just more reach. It's going to significantly increase if you're thinking about the social media clip as a, maybe we can get recycle something. Well, that was your opportunity.
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the best it could have been, that's a missed opportunity
Kriste Goad (19:31): For sure.
Michael Utley (19:31):
That's good. So there's a lot of change, a lot of things with remote work and a lot of shift toward more media. There's a lot of change in the tools that we're using. So are there any tools or any ideas that have you excited these days? Any that you're using that you can't believe you didn't have a year ago? That sort of thing?
Kriste Goad (19:51):
I can tell you from an internal people and project management kind of tool is we are using monday.com, which is not a platform we were using this time last year. We really tried to stick with the platform we were on, but it just wasn't working for us. And we're like, okay, we need something more intuitive, easier to navigate, easier to use, easier for everybody to know what should they be working on when it seems like that should just be as a business, you don't actually just automatically know that everyone's not exactly aware of what they should be working on. So monday.com we started using just a few months ago, and it has really been a game changer for us in terms of managing all the different projects for clients, managing projects for our own agency. We use it for business as much as we manage the work itself and having a line of sight on people's priorities. As an agency, you're constantly trying to understand what our capacity is, are people overbooked, underbooked. A lot of times you run into, you have several clients with competing projects that are overlapping on delivery, but you still have the same team delivering, and so you can't be five places at once. So it really helps us have a line of sight on that and be able to look around the corner and make sure that we're planning and scheduling and setting expectations appropriately, both with our team as well as with our clients. Yeah,
Michael Utley (21:34):
That's great. Yeah, I think there are going to be more tools. AI is kind the big thing that's coming, and I think a lot of times we're probably over the next few years going to have to negotiate where we want it, where we don't want it,
Kriste Goad (21:47):
That sort of thing. Yeah, we've definitely been like everyone experimenting with Chat GPT and leveraging it and really trying to understand what it's good at and not good at what it's good to use it for or not. So we definitely have been experimenting with that as well.
Michael Utley (22:05):
Yeah. Yeah. I think it's also, I mean, I wouldn't say brand new AI is kind of an idea. It's been around for years, but this predictive language model that just kind of repeats everything on the internet up to the year 2020 or whatever, it's like, okay, I get it. But yeah, it's not turning out to be the sort of, I don't know, magic for a lot of things. There's still a lot of work required for a lot of activities.
Kriste Goad (22:36):
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Michael Utley (22:39):
Yeah, that's right. Well, yeah, and I argue that it's not an SEO killer. We do a lot of SEO work. I say it's not an SEO killer, it's a search engine killer, but when I go to Bing and I use it, I'm like, okay, I just want search results right now. I don't like this. So there's some kind of user habits, like surgeons have been around for 20 years. It is a pretty good concept. Not sure that we should ditch that right away, but yeah, we'll see how it all shakes out. Okay. Next up, we kind of touched on this earlier, but I'm curious to know your thoughts on thought leadership. My question is, is thought leadership still a goal for companies that want to market their services? Yeah. What do you think? Even the phrase thought leadership feels kind of uncomfortable to say it does, but I can't point to anything we're doing that isn't about building thought leadership.
Kriste Goad (23:32):
I know I absolutely love thought leadership, and oddly, as long as I've been doing this, it has been a difficult and elusive thing to describe to people who don't inherently understand what thought leadership is. I've been explaining thought leadership for as long as I've been involved in thought leadership, and I think it's one of those things that I have found it's almost impossible to convince a client that doesn't understand thought leadership already to do it
Michael Utley (24:11): Interesting
Kriste Goad (24:13):
Under that moniker. But then the clients where their internal teams and their leadership that they understand it, that's when it's really fun. They know they want it. They know maybe they already have it, they want to do more of it when it's really fun. I think absolutely thought leadership is a goal for companies that want to market their services. If it's not, it should be.
Michael Utley (24:43): Yeah.
Kriste Goad (24:44): I hesitate to use the word should, but
Michael Utley (24:46):
Yeah. So not going away, but how would you say it's different than maybe a decade ago when thought leadership was kind of a new idea, but how would you say it's different even going into 2024? What does thought leadership for your types of customers look like? People who are clients of Fuoco, what's their appetite right now for new ideas and new insights? What are they thinking about and what are you recommending to them for next year?
Kriste Goad (25:17): So when I think about thought leadership, I think it's really about really giving a lot of consideration and
deep consideration to how people buy. How do your customers buy, whether direct to consumer,
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whether B2B, they Google or Bing or whatever search engine they use, they Google, which is now a verb. They ask friends, they ask family, they ask trusted networks and they look for value. And so I think thought leadership drives all of those. I think thought leadership drives brand awareness. I think it drives differentiation. I think it drives again, that internal cohesion that I mentioned earlier. If you're a company and you're like, okay, we're going to put a stake in the ground thought leadership, let's just say I want you to buy my AI solution for physician practices. Okay, well, let's dig deep and say, well, what is it actually doing?
It goes back to that brand storytelling and what is the big challenge that it's solving and how is my AI solution for doctors' practices different? What's it going to do? What problem is it going to solve? And now let's create a whole educational subject matter expert campaign around that, and it's going to help your internal teams know how to talk about it. It's going to help how to talk about to the market. And then if you do it well, it's going to define how people shop for that solution. So I think it gives marketing PR teams something to build campaigns around. It drives content. It can feed marketing the marketing machine for multiple months if not multiple years. I think if you're an organization with really heavy hitters, subject matter experts, it's a great way to feature that expertise and set your brand apart and all of that combined.
Wait for it. I'm going to your SEO. It really fuels SEO and search rankings, right? Yes. And it's driving traffic to your site, to your app, to whatever. And I think if your brand is leading the way on helping buyers know what to look for when they're in need for that solution or that product and that you're selling, then you're going to move way up to the top of their list, both search as well as preference. And I think if they're then priced rate, good thought leadership can help you overcome pricing issues if you're the most expensive, but people view you as the true thought leader and the expert that can help you get that higher price. A lot of times too, I think, and even more bonus, if you're somewhere in the middle, you're not the lowest price, the highest price, but you're a great price point and then your thought leadership drives home with your buyer that you're also a good value. Then you hit it out of the park with that.
Michael Utley (28:23):
Yeah, you said something I had never heard before. People are looking for value. And I think a lot of times with any kind of content or especially in people are trying to do marketing stuff and they're not used to talking in a marketing way, they think they need to talk in a sales way and they're often too close to what they're doing and need an agency to help 'em take a step back and say, wait a second. At the end of the day, what does this really do for anybody? They're looking for value either in search engines with a pain point or in social media bumping up against something that might be innovative and they need new ideas and they're looking for new things.
Kriste Goad (28:58):
And a lot of times you don't know what you don't know. So as the expert, you're selling a solution they need, but you have to help them understand what to look for. How do I differentiate GOPs from Fuoco? How do I know the difference? I run into that all the time. I don't know about you people looking for a marketing partner, and if they looked at GOPs and they looked at Fuoco, there'd be two totally different things, but a lot of buyers don't know the difference. And so if you can help buyers understand the difference and understand how to know how buy that is thought leadership,
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And I think just 2 cents. But I think the way it's kind of changed some is more of you have to be at the party, you have to be in the community. So not just putting out content, but I would say community as a component of it. Now being at the events, I don't know. I just see you and other folks who I follow, they're just out there. They're just present. And so when those people are always present, I go to this event or I see who's going to be attending this thing or who's got out a new podcast episode on this. There's just a presence, sometimes even a physical presence. And I think that's a big part of thought leadership now is true showing
Kriste Goad (30:21):
It's true. It's so true because you think just because, I mean, I don't know if you've run into this. I certainly have. I'm like, I run into friends of mine and they're like, now when I say friends, not like people that I'm seeing all the time, but that I feel like I have an idea of what they're doing. And I feel like I thought they probably had an idea of what I'm doing, but I went to this, I used to work in the governor's office and Governor Sundquist and he passed away and there was a really nice funeral service for him last week, and I went, so I ran into a lot of people I hadn't really seen in a long time. And they're like, what are you doing now? And I'm like, gosh, I probably need to be out there more. And making sure people know, well, I'd have this healthcare B2B marketing agency.
So sometimes you think you're out there, but you got to be out there all the time. And that's one thing I wanted to say about the thought leadership. It is not an overnight thing. And once you have, it takes a while to get it right. And once you have it, you want to keep it and you want to continue to invest and maintain that presence in people's mind and that presence in the market. And I equate it, it's a lot like exercising. It takes a long time to get into shape and seemingly overnight to get out of shape. So I think you got to always be flexing that muscle
Michael Utley (31:47): Spoken like a true long distance athlete, which you are
Kriste Goad (31:52): Not right now. Got to get back on the bike.
Michael Utley (31:56): Yeah. All right. Same here again. Okay, last question. This is a wrap up fun question. So Kriste, what is
your favorite sea creature and why?
Kriste Goad (32:04): Okay,
Michael Utley (32:05): Listen, we're partial here at GoEpps to the narwhal.
Kriste Goad (32:07): I saw that.
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Kriste Goad (32:10):
Well, I am about to tell you my answer. So I had to Google is a narwhal a whale because my favorite sea creature is the whale. And I found out that narwhal is in the whale family, but I think it's partly because they're my favorite, these mammals living under water, which is just fascinating to me. And the other reason, well, I have several reasons if will humor me, but I've also had the opportunity to see whales in person in the wild during whale season in Hawaii a few times. And it's just such a remarkable thing, right? It's something that's so amazing. If you ever have the opportunity, go see whales during whale season, whatever coast that may be. But I also just think their size is mind boggling and the fact that they're so massive, but at the same time, they're so gentle.
I'm also fascinated with the way that they communicate with each other. I'm a communicator, but they have their own language and humans are studying this whale communication. And then I would say lastly, it's just really all inspiring. And I guess whales just always make me think of how big the world and the earth and the universe are and what a small part of it that I am. And I think for me, I was thinking about the answer to this question and I'm like, it just kind of puts things into perspective in that it drives home my belief in a higher power and this force out there that's just so much bigger than any one person or country or planet or maybe even universe. So there the whale, he's big, big, big thoughts.
Michael Utley (34:07):
I love it. That's a great zen moment to close on. So yeah, thank you so much. So for everybody listening, Kriste Goad, healthcare B2B marketing, she's someone to talk to, strategy, solutions, branding, voice, figuring out the big picture things and starting fires together, starting a fire. So Kriste, thank you so much. So good to see you. So good to spend time with you. Thanks for being on the Narwhal Pod, and we'll see you again soon. Thank you.
Kriste Goad (34:38): Thanks for having me. This has been so much fun.
Michael Utley (34:40): Thank you.
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